The Triangle

"Have you even been to the city or do you just get your information from Rush Limbaugh alone?"

No. If you read the article, you'd see I get my information from liberal, Democratic friends of mine in the Houston area who are fed up with funding the "refugees".

"What help do you think New Orleanians have gotten besides the kindness of volunteers from churches and schools?"

Way to miss my point. What have the people done to help themselves?

"Insurance companies are doing what they always do-hold onto their money for dear life."

I would to if there was a high rate of fraud and mismanagement of funds. They also have to determine whether it was flooding that caused some of the damage. They also have to determine if people were carrying flood insurance. How much do you know about the insurance industry?

"If you can't help your fellow citizens at least have the decency to stop giving your unwanted and unneeded criticism and let the citizens of New Orleans find their way back from the precipice in peace."

Well I never had the time or resources to help out the folks in NO. Sorry, I guess some of us have our own lives to live. In the meantime, I do enjoy helping out the Habitat for Humanity up this way... it's the "least" I could do, right? Thanks for the well-reasoned response.

"Broadbrush comments such as yours are not fair and leave out the other side of the picture."

The "other side" is all you ever hear anylonger. You never hear the stories like I did from my friend in Houston. All you hear is how it's such a crime against this Administration... how the US don't take care of their own, etc. That was the point of the article, that clearly there are groups who have organized to help.

Originally posted by

Louie Bonnecarre

The author's comments as shared by other Americans is more upsetting than losing a lifetime of belongings as many of us did. This is the real tragedy of the man made disaster. If the majority of Americans shared the sentiments of the author and existed during World War II versus today, we would be ruled by Nazis.

Louie,
I second this sentiment.

"It took nine months before FEMA released the elevation maps. We were required to raise our homes based on these maps. It took six months before a shoring company starting the work due to high demand...The critical path of rebuilding my home from start to finish was twenty months. This was an aggressive forecast and considering there is only 15% of my neighborhood back, it was accurate."

Hence my point. People complain that they can't believe conditions are still so horrible down there, yet here we are one month shy of when the "aggressive forecast" said your home would be rebuilt. Y'all do a great job of missing the greater point of the article, which is I'm sick of hearing all this "I can't believe it's not rebuilt yet" when all historical record and sensible fact points to this being a rebuilding to take years, if not decades. And you don't need to preach to me about the inadequacy of the Feds in this matter. The editor changed one of my sentences to make it sound like I support them... which I don't.
Another point: if you know the feds are so inept, why are so many people dependant on them?

"How many cities will you allow the Corps to destroy before you trouble yourself to offer national aid to bring them back to life?"

If my aid would lead to the raising of the grade and the construction of a viable levy system, I'd gladly (and freely) offer financial aid. If my "aid" is going to be used to rebuild homes just waiting for the next storm to wipe them clean again, I'd prefer to just hang onto that cash if you don't mind.

You might have been taught to be responsible for your actions. My momma always taught me to learn from my mistakes.

"But, those of us who love the city of New Orleans will always be grateful beyond words for their kindness and generosity of spirit."

Good. Now kindly do something about any of your neighbors who still like to complain to others that "we" aren't doing enough.

Originally posted by

Nancy Brister

Apparently, Mr. Kaighan didn't take advantage of Drexel University's courses in geography. Calling New Orleans a "coastal city" is the first tip-off that he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about...a fact which proved to be true in every aspect of his discourse. The last time I drove due south from New Orleans to the Gulf of Mexico, it was approximately one hundred twenty (120) miles.

Really? So Mapquest is lying when it shows the center of New Orleans only 12 miles off the coast of the Gulf?

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=home&formtype=address&popflag=0&latitude=&longitude=&name=&phone=&level=&cat=&address=&city=new+orleans&state=la&zipcode=

You're full of something, and it's akin to what's floating around in the streets down there.

Originally posted by

Nancy Brister

Hurricane Katrina--which, by the way, was only a Category One storm by the time it reached the inland city of New Orleans. The Corps had guaranteed the levee system in New Orleans up to and including the force of a Category Three hurricane.

Damn Nancy, I just keep coming up with fact-checking. Try Google and Wikipedia, they help immensely. Katrina was a Category 1 as it crossed over Florida. It strengthened to a Category 3 by the time it hit LA and Mississippi on August 29th.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_katrina

What else you got for me? I could do this all freakin day.

Very well said and very appreciative of your comments. I am New Orleanian hoping for people to understand the situation as well as you do. You give me hope when many do not... Thanks

Originally posted by

Chris Robert

The writer is a hateful bigot.

Well let's take him outside and hang him by his shoestrings! It's like a drive-by non-sequitir in here.

DJ,
Compassionate Conservatism hasn't existed for quite sometime, at least not as a political movement. It's been replaced with neoconservatism, which is to say liberalism that conservatives are trying to take credit for. The "kool-aid" you suggest would basically come from my friend the Democrat in Houston, who said HE was tired of the lazy people that were mooching off his area. Since those folks have little effect on us up here, I'm not "tired" of the "lazy". Once again, since y'all can't seem to get the point of my article, I am tired of those from the NO area who complain that America hasn't done enough, those who complain that they can't believe NO isn't back to pristine condition yet. And, as I said, for every heart warming tale of the organized groups who make road trips down there to frame a house or two, you hear by word of mouth about the (perhaps minority) locals who complain and complain... and apparently have done little in the past 18 months.

My article has nothing to do with politics, it raised a simple premise: if Galveston found the strength over 100 years ago to salvage their town, and take future precautions, why haven't we seen the same out of NO? The answer may very well be, the media just aren't covering it. That wouldn't surprise me. However, no one here has bothered to say such a thing. Write an article into the Triangle citing sources that tells me I'm wrong. Link me to some website that shows me the progress made, some citizen actions, whatever. I couldn't find any.

Someone above asked if I knew why NO flooded. Yes, the levees were breached, which released all the retained water into a city already below the local water level. The water had to be pumped out of the city, it couldn't rely on gravity drains. I still fail to see how that makes me a bigot, but have fun trying!

And finally, Nancy, on that "personal note"... if you don't like offensive messages, I suggest you not start in with the ad-hominems. Your citing of facts, your comments on the Corp, etc. are fine, but you're the one that started slinging the insults.

Also, if I may ask everyone here... what is it that makes you assume I'm a conservative? This wouldn't be your first time reading one of my articles, would it?[/QUOTE]

Ken,
The fact that you can say "pristine condition" tells me you don't have a CLUE to the conditions on the Gulf Coast. CATASTROPHE! All houses destroyed. All businesses destroyed. All local support destroyed. And your "friend" in Houston is well known to New Orleanians. You see when we were fighting to SURVIVE, these "friends" in Houston were contacting us to berate us. They let us know how Houstonians were "suffering" under the increase of crime in Houston. These "friends" felt nothing of contacting people in NOLA , Americans that had lost EVERYTHING and were fighting under impossible odds to reclaim their beloved city. So much for those tough Texans! I spit on them! I spit on 'Americans" that cannot be compassionate to suffering. I will do EVERYTHING in my power to remove them from power in this country. This is not the country I was brought up to love and respect. This is NOT the country my father put his life on the line in WWII for. In his honor (buried in New Orleans, flooded in New Orleans)I will fight to the death to regain the dignity that this country once stood for.

"The fact that you can say "pristine condition" tells me you don't have a CLUE to the conditions on the Gulf Coast. CATASTROPHE!"

Actually I do. I work for a chem manufacturer who had several sites in the Gulf area destroyed by Katrina. I know the damage done to those sites alone. I flew over NO about a month ago and saw what looked like wetlands (i.e. neighborhoods).

You do realize what started this, right? Someone wrote in another piece that the NOLA area looked like a "ghost-town" still in shambles. She expressed dismay that the area still looked like this. She was clearly not familiar with the construction industry. Like my article said, it took Galveston 27 years to complete their reconstruction efforts. It took SanFran 9 years to half-asserdly recover from the Quake in 1906. We're only 19 months into it in NOLA. People's expectations of the rebuilding efforts seem to be a bit unrealistic.

==============================
How many hundred articles would you like, Ken? Since 9/2005, in addition to rss feeds from more than 200 relevant newspapers, news agencies and blogs, I have been subscribed to 5 different e-mail alerts for all news articles and blog posts which include any of the words: New Orleans, Orleans Parish, Louisiana, Katrina,levee, Corps of Engineers, 17th Street Canal, London Canal, Industrial Canal,
MRGO (gulf outlet), Lake Pontchartrain, Lakeview, West End, Gentilly, Mid-City, City Park, Faubourg Marigny, Ninth Ward, Seventh Ward, French Quarter, Garden District, Irish Channel, Broadmoor, Bywater, Carrollton and New Orleans East. At the end of each day, I go through the feeds and the alerts and read each article from every alert (except duplicates). What I've lost in sleep, I've gained in knowledge of the levee failures and the activities of the "lazy" people of New Orleans. I've saved more of those articles than the memory on my computer thinks I should. So I have lots of stories of New Orleanians killing themselves (quite literally) to try to rebuild the city.

It's not easy in the Big Easy these days, Ken. Some couldn't deal with it--they tried, but it's tough. The physical work, the stress, the depressed atmosphere that saturated the city, the financial problems, the Katrina "flu" (from the mold, etc., in the air), limited medical facilities...tough going. Those folks gave up and moved away; or, committed suicide; or, especially true of older citizens, they surrendered to illness and death. But the folks who remain in the
city, the ones who continue to face the mind-boggling physical and mental challenges, they're not lazy, Ken. They're amazing.

While you decide how many hundred stories you want about lazy New Orleanians, I'll give you one. In this story, you have a picture of thousands of others exactly like it. Because I haven't asked permission to use their names, I'll call this couple Don and Judy. Don is my cousin. This is lazy Don and lazy Judy's average weekly schedule:
Weekdays:
4:00-4:30 a.m.---up early so they can do renovation work on their home or Judy's parents' home or their elderly neighbor's home before heading for work
7:30 a.m.---get ready; go to work
Lunch hours---perform the unending task of dealing with: building permits, insurance, mortgage companies, utilities, SBA, FEMA guidelines, building inspections, contractors for work they can't perform, etc., etc., etc., etc.
5:30-6 p.m.---arrive home from work
6:30 p.m.---do renovation work on their home, Judy's parents' home or their elderly neighbor's home
11:00 p.m. or whenever they collapse---go to bed
Saturday:
6:30 a.m.---after "sleeping late," they begin renovation work on their home, Judy's parents' home or their elderly neighbor's home
2 p.m. Saturday---they join neighbors in a volunteer community clean-up crew in their neighborhood
5-6 p.m.---grocery shop
8 p.m.---they do renovation work on their home, Judy's parents' home or their elderly neighbor's home
Midnight or whenever they collapse---go to bed
Sunday:
Same as Saturday, with exception of neighborhood clean-up and grocery shopping
1 Saturday a.m. a month, they volunteer at City Park to help re-plant trees,etc.

Wanna trade schedules?

I am watching a city I love die. I am watching people I love kill themselves trying to save it. And I am reading unconscionable myths and rumors about the city's citizens by people like you, who wouldn't know New Orleans if they tripped over it. (And, who, even with a map, can't figure out where it is. Mapquest is precisely correct in its labeling, by the way, they place Lake Borgne, not the Gulf of Mexico, adjacent to New Orleans. The drowning of N.O. has taken its toll on me, I'll grant you that, but I'm pretty sure I know where a city I've spent my life--50 years--is located.)

As, I believe, doctorj mentioned in a previous post, I've been reading this trash for 20 months--it started while there was water sill sitting in the city of New Orleans. And I'm getting pretty tired of it and not just a little irritated. I never had a true understanding of what blaming the victim meant until the conservative talking heads--in an effort to take the heat off of the administration's monumental screw-up--started posting urban legends ad infinitum in their blogs and columns and people like you read them and believed them and started passing them around cyberspace. And even had the audacity to pass them on to me...and doctorj and other New Orleans natives. And some people say there's too much political correctness. According to the e-mail messages I receive, there's not even a modicum of old-fashioned civility or common sense, much less political correctness.

If there are "lazy" people in Houston, and Houston doesn't like it, my advice would be for Houston to "do something about it." Isn't that what you suggested the people in New Orleans should have done? Do something about the levees? You don't mention what they should have done about levees they didn't know were faulty, but you must have something in mind. They (city council members, mayor, business leaders, state representatives) went, hat in hand, to Washington on
numerous occasions to ask that money be appropriated to update levee work---they were turned down; the last time a request was made, before the flood, the Bush administration told them to go fly a kite (or words to that effect). I guess the city's Girl Scouts could've had a bake sale to raise the kazillion dollars it would've taken. But, gosh, Ken, that would've meant baking a whole lot of muffins. I guess 450,000 people could've relocated the city of New Orleans to Houston. But, no, your friends probably wouldn't have liked that? Besides, N.O. is in such a handy place to distribute the oil (the drilling of which has ruined LA's wetlands and caused, to a large extent, its coastal erosion-which intensifies the city's hurricane problems) from the Gulf to the rest of America. And I'm sure you want your oil? (In ten years, you'll be right, Ken. That's how long a group of scientists says it will be until the city of New Orleans actually will be on the coast--all land in-between will be gone by then, if nothing is done to save it.)

You and Houston act as if you're stunned that there are people in this country who receive welfare assistance. Well, Ken, I'll tell you what I've been stunned to learn. Apparently, New Orleans was the only city in the nation who had residents who accepted welfare. Who knew?? And, I'd always thought places like New York City, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Detroit, Los Angeles and, heck, Ken, even Houston! had residents who accepted welfare. Shows how much I knew. I must've been wrong, because the way you're carrying on about "New Orleans no good lazy
bums" in Houston, apparently, the rest of the country must have solved its welfare-related problems. I don't know how I missed that story.

If (repeat, if), there are huge groups of people in Houston who are taking charity from--by the way, did your friend mention who was giving them money? He said he was tired of supporting them, but I have a hunch he's not giving them money directly? No, didn't think so. It would add credibility to your article if you could say exactly who was supporting them. Federal, state, city government?? Churches, charities?? Let's find out who's supporting these folks.
That's kind of important.

Anyway, if there are such folks, I don't think it's a problem that can't be overcome. If former New Orleanians, who now live in Houston, thanks to the fact that there's no longer affordable housing or public housing in the city and who were deposited there without any vote in the process by the federal government, and if (repeat, if) they refuse to work, they clearly have as much of a problem as Houston. They're "stuck," as my 3 year-old granddaughter says when
she can't figure out a solution to a problem. There's literally no place for them to live in New Orleans and they don't have money to relocate. So, they're as stuck with Houston as Houston is with them. But, not to worry, there's a perfectly simple solution. Just explain to your friends that any citizens of any city can do anything they want (unless, of course, they're lazy--and surely your friends are not?)....the citizens should just, let's see, what was your sage
advice...oh, yes...just "do something about it." If you expect that a city could force the Corp of Engineers to open their work for inspection or force the federal government to spend money on levee improvements, then a little thing like a few thousand people who won't work should be a cinch. Tell them to "just do something" about it, Ken. They probably simply hadn't thought of it and they'll be grateful for your input.

And, yes, Ken, I most assuredly believe that engineers (even architectural engineers) should stand behind their work. If a job was guaranteed to certain standards--such as a category 3 hurricane (and do remember that Katrina was only a cat 1 when it came through--what did you say--oh, "try fact-checking" Ken, "it's simple to do"), and the levees didn't hold, they should be held both accountable and responsible. They have a moral, ethical and, perhaps, legal responsibility to make what they shattered whole again (suits have been filed against the Corps, so we'll just have to wait and see about legal; it's tough sledding, because it's not easy to sue the government--smart move on the government's part, all things considered).

You break it, you buy it, that's what I believe. That's true of New Orleans, or Galveston or Sacramento, whose levees may be next to go; it's true of Memphis, which lies smack-dab on top of the middle of an earthquake fault. It's even true of Houston.

A few minutes ago, the cost of the war in Iraq was $419,636,721,593 and change (National Priorities Project: www.costofwar.com). We keep spending money rebuilding the country and somebody keeps blowing it up again. Some people take longer than others to learn from their mistakes.

That much money could've fixed New Orleans, Galveston and Sacramento's levees, with some left over for the next levee failure or terrorist attack or earthquake.

As a bumper sticker I saw the other day read, "New Orleans for Baghdad. Bad trade."
=====================

Originally posted by

Ken

"Ken, maybe you did a poor job of conveying the point of your article."

Which makes me wonder why, if the government refused to do anything, did the citizens not seem to take action? And if they did, please refer me to the action they took. I agree with you, sometimes it takes that whopper of a disaster to spur people into action.

1) What have the local NOLA citizens done by themselves to help rebuild the area? This would help immensely in countering the Houstonian point.

2) Do local NOLA citizens refute the idea that fellow Americans are doing nothing to help, or do they embrace it?

3) Do local NOLA citizens believe the rebuilding is their responsibility, or that of the government or of the nation as a whole?

Originally posted by

Ken

"Ken, maybe you did a poor job of conveying the point of your article."

Looks that way. Lesson learned and next time I'll try to stay more on point.

"We were not aware the feds or the army corps of engineers was inept. We were told we would be protected by a category three hurricane from a government agency..."

Louie, I have one bridge for sale. Slightly used, needs a light coat of paint, that's all. The fed (and it's agencies) have been inept for quite some time. To claim you put trust in *anything* they do makes me smirk.

"This was based on scientific research and computer simulations. Every level of government was informed and nothing was done."

Right Louie, I remember those. Which makes me wonder why, if the government refused to do anything, did the citizens not seem to take action? And if they did, please refer me to the action they took. I agree with you, sometimes it takes that whopper of a disaster to spur people into action.

DJ, you can "spit" on those Houstonians all you want, but I just received word from yet another person in Houston who read my article and agreed with his fellow local. It's important here to point out, as my article said, that there still exist people from the NOLA area who ARE definitively lazy and currently mooching. I never said everyone was, contrary to how SK believes I "disparaged half a million people". Y'all read into that what you wanted. That doesn't make the quote any less true.

"Too lazy?"

No, it's an ed-op. You know, editorial opinion piece. It posed a few questions and a couple of my opinions on the matter. None of the posts thus far on this board have countered my points in the article (with an exception being Louie's last post which discussed the levee board actions). You've simply called me a bigot, arrogant, stupid, heartless, etc. That's not countering my argument, that's an emotional response. So, if you think my opinions are baseless, then post some links here for everyone to see and read. In particular, I want to know:

1) What have the local NOLA citizens done by themselves to help rebuild the area? This would help immensely in countering the Houstonian point.

2) Do local NOLA citizens refute the idea that fellow Americans are doing nothing to help, or do they embrace it?

3) Do local NOLA citizens believe the rebuilding is their responsibility, or that of the government or of the nation as a whole?

I cannot say it any better than Nancy. Thank you Nancy for your great post. I have no energy left to be reasonable to this writer. How do you explain the last 20 months to someone that has not lived it? Heroes are everywhere you look in New Orleans.

Did you read the article? You have a totally different agenda. You're typical of the heartless and arrogant few. You state the citizens of New Orleans have not been grateful for the sacrifices of others? How can you possibly say that? It's been well documented the appreciation for volunteers by New Orleanians in helping rebuild our city. What will save New Orleans is the help of volunteers and New Orleanians working side by side. This has been the most inspirational and incredible story line to come out of New Orleans since the storm. You are so off it's beyond comprehension. You're upset over a statement one person made. Have some concrete facts to support your comments. To say New Orleanians are not grateful because the mayor stated your city is dirtier than New Orleans is ludicrous.

Originally posted by

Kevin

As much as this article seems rather heartless at first glance, to some extent I have to agree with the author's position. The problems with New Orleans began right at the top, with Mayor Ray Nagin, who balked at every opportunity to issue the evacuations that would have saved many lives. He didn't order evacuations until just before the storm hit, giving people little opportunity to escape. A fleet of school buses was destroyed by the storm, school buses that, at the mayor's orders, could have been used to evacuate those who were too poor to get out on there own. So what was the mayor's reaction? Blame Bush. Clearly he went out to the equitorial Atlantic Ocean and started up the weather maker that he and his "big oil" buddys have been hiding in order to destroy the poor people of New Orleans. Nagin has done nothing but continue his blame game, leading the choir of citizens in New Orleans, who want the rest of the nation to rebuild their town. My response: READ THE CONSTITUTION. Nowhere does it give the national government the responsibility, or even the authority, to evacuate a city or rebuild it when its incompetant mayor screws the pooch. We do it anyway, though, and it goes entirely unappreciated. Take for example the work of the city of Philadelphia, who graciously accepted Katrina refugees into a city funded housing program. Then, following a tour of the city to give Nagin advice on how he can rebuild the city, he goes back to New Orleans and insults it. The government and citizens of New Orleans have failed to be grateful for any of the sacrifices made by others, but they have certainly made their voices heard when it comes to whining and complaining. My gratitude, Ken, for saying what we all wanted to say, but didn't have the guts to.

Originally posted by

Kevin

The government and citizens of New Orleans have failed to be grateful for any of the sacrifices made by others, but they have certainly made their voices heard when it comes to whining and complaining.

Not true Kevin. A co-worker of mine took a week of his vacation time to travel with his church group to NOLA to frame up a house. He commented that the family that they were helping were incredibly grateful. My issue has always been with those who claim there isn't enough being done.

Originally posted by

Kevin

Not true Kevin. A co-worker of mine took a week of his vacation time to travel with his church group to NOLA to frame up a house. He commented that the family that they were helping were incredibly grateful. My issue has always been with those who claim there isn't enough being done.

I appreciate your clarification, Ken. Obviously, blanket statements are almost always false. I am sure there are many in New Orleans who are very grateful for the help being provided by those who could have washed their hands of the entire tragedy, but either the media has failed to bring them to the fore, or they are entirely overshadowed by the complaints of there not being enough done to help. Certainly, different people react in different ways, so I'm sure there are plenty who are quite thankful and wouldn't even think of complaining that there has not been enough.

Meanwhile, in response to Louis' comment, Mayor Nagin is the perfect example of the group of people that are being discussed in this article. Yeah, I have a problem with Nagin, and I have ever since I saw him irresponsibily delay evacuations, choosing to leave thousands of people who couldn't get out on their own in harm's way (I guess you could call that an agenda). With him, calling the City of Philadelphia dirty was only the most recent example of why I don't like him, but it's certainly not the root cause. My problem with him grew when he began blaming everyone else for what happened to the city under his watch. He had every resource at his fingertips to save lives, and he didn't do it. Then he blamed the state government, the federal government, FEMA (which did also drop the ball), and anybody else he could think of. When people came to help, he complained it wasn't happening fast enough, or in great enough quantities. Now in the latest, but I'm sure not final, act of stupidity, he insulted a city that has provided invaluable help as New Orleans has attempted to recover. If the group discussed in this article does exist (and I believe it does), Ray Nagin is their king and rolemodel. If he acted a little more like a mayor and less like a toddler, not only would much more of New Orleans be back to normal, but it would be happening in a fruitful collaboration between those willing to help and those affected by the storm.

So, I don't think it's that ludicrous for me to point out Ray Nagin as an example of the spirit of this article. What is ludicrous is your attempt to straw man my argument down to "You made fun of my city so I'm going to make fun of your's." Clearly it is more nuanced than that. The vast majority of New Orleans citizens are good people with the desire to rebuild and make their city even better than before. I say that spirit is inspiring and powerful. But wasting energy on fruitless complaining and insulting is not at all inspiring and will only make New Orleans look worse, both in its recovery and in the view of the world. I hope the attitude of those people, and especially Mayor Nagin, changes, or New Orleans doesn't have a chance.

Kevin... I agree with most of what you stated the second time...There should have been a better evacuation plan and there was plenty of finger pointing on every government level. Every level of government is at fault in some way. To say whose responsible in certain situations is hard to figure out. It's very easy in retrospect to say what should have been done. It's not easy to make all the right decisions when you're in the middle of the worst natural disaster in U.S History. We were doomed before the storm hit. The mayor's performance was sub par at best. There should be lessons learned and preventative measures taken so this will never happen to any city here and abroad. I also have issues with Nagin's comments. At a time when we should be sending positive messages from this region he has a tendency to put his foot in his mouth over and over again. On a positive note, he has a way of getting things done unbeknownst to people outside of New Orleans. He is more of a businessman than a politician. We at times need this type of person but he does more harm than good with his comments and it upsets many of us. His comments on Philadelphia should be termed ludicrous.

Originally posted by

Kevin

.
Meanwhile, in response to Louis' comment, Mayor Nagin is the perfect example of the group of people that are being discussed in this article. Yeah, I have a problem with Nagin, and I have ever since I saw him irresponsibily delay evacuations, choosing to leave thousands of people who couldn't get out on their own in harm's way (I guess you could call that an agenda). With him, calling the City of Philadelphia dirty was only the most recent example of why I don't like him, but it's certainly not the root cause. My problem with him grew when he began blaming everyone else for what happened to the city under his watch. He had every resource at his fingertips to save lives, and he didn't do it. Then he blamed the state government, the federal government, FEMA (which did also drop the ball), and anybody else he could think of. When people came to help, he complained it wasn't happening fast enough, or in great enough quantities. Now in the latest, but I'm sure not final, act of stupidity, he insulted a city that has provided invaluable help as New Orleans has attempted to recover. If the group discussed in this article does exist (and I believe it does), Ray Nagin is their king and rolemodel. If he acted a little more like a mayor and less like a toddler, not only would much more of New Orleans be back to normal, but it would be happening in a fruitful collaboration between those willing to help and those affected by the storm.

So, I don't think it's that ludicrous for me to point out Ray Nagin as an example of the spirit of this article. What is ludicrous is your attempt to straw man my argument down to "You made fun of my city so I'm going to make fun of your's." Clearly it is more nuanced than that. The vast majority of New Orleans citizens are good people with the desire to rebuild and make their city even better than before. I say that spirit is inspiring and powerful. But wasting energy on fruitless complaining and insulting is not at all inspiring and will only make New Orleans look worse, both in its recovery and in the view of the world. I hope the attitude of those people, and especially Mayor Nagin, changes, or New Orleans doesn't have a chance.

Louie, I appreciate your thoughts. I will admit that my first comment was over the top and disorganized. Like many, I am very passionate about what happened in New Orleans and things didn't come out as I intended. There is so much to say and, as I said, it is so nuanced. The key thing to realize is that a lot of people dropped the ball, at every level of government, and the only way to get things moving positively for New Orleans is to end the blame game and begin collaboration.

Louie, I wish your city the best of luck and my thoughts and prayers are with its citizens.

Originally posted by

Sorry Ken

The problem Kevin is that you have no idea what you are talking about so you make stuff up. Doesn't say much for your Alma Mater.

Forget the bigotry, and above all, ****quit making stuff up to hide your ignorance.****

If you took the time to learn what you what you where talking about you would have saved yourself a whole bunch of embarrassment.

I find a lot of what you say very interesting. To call me ignorant, that's funny. The fact of the matter is that I look at this from a significantly different viewpoint. I guess there is some honor in not doing any research and just listening to whatever Katie Couric tells you to believe (wait, no there isn't), but I decided to research this from a different angle. Everybody wants to point the finger at the feds, and people went as far as blaming the storm (not it's impact, mind you, the storm itself) on the federal government. That is ignorant. People said that Bush stopped funding to the levees...that never happened either.

Now let's talk about something that did happen. In the 1980s a senator pushed through $2 Billion to dredge the Red River in Louisiana. Five consecutive presidential administrations have opposed the spending, but a lot of federal taxpayer money has been spent on it every year. Recently this river, which a January 9, 2000 Washington Post article stated "still carries less than 0.1 percent of the commercial traffic on America's government-run river transport system -- even though it receives a remarkable 3.4 percent of the system's federal funds," was renamed the J. Bennett Johnston waterway. Who is J. Bennett Johnston you ask? Oh, he is the senator from Louisiana who pushed through this pork year after year, which has been continued by senator Mary Landrieu. Hey, that's billion of dollars that could have been used elsewhere, say, on the levees. Of course, nobody in Louisiana thought to demand such a thing of their representation before Katrina.

So the taxation system failed New Orleans because the people who had the opportunity to change things were sleeping on the job and not seeing the need. But, of course, the "system of taxation" you speak of should have provided them blank checks, right? You see, your whole point about the tax system is flawed for many reasons:

1. You cannot tax people infinitely. There is some expectation of a little fiscal responsibility.

2. The senators who were there and had the opportunity to see the necessity made other things a larger priority, like dredging a river that no one uses.

3. The system of taxation was not set up for that purpose. Go back to the time of the framers of the constitution. There was the purposeful intent of avoiding a large federal government. Taxes were meant to be small and cover only the administrative costs of running the country and keeping a standing military.

Read "The Federalist Papers" and "The Anti-Federalist Papers" sometime and you will see that neither side wanted to have a government that taxed people in Florida to build bridges in Alaska, or tax people in Alaska to build levees for people who wanted to live below sea level in Louisiana. That is what state governments are for. But that is what you are saying is the case. This myth that the federal government is supposed to solve everyone's problems is based in the very pork that people like Johnston and Landrieu pushed through.

So yes, if a postal truck ran into my living room, I'd expect the employer of the driver (the federal government) to pay. Just as I would expect the private trucking company to pay if it's driver drove into my living room. If a hurricane hit my house, I'd call my insurance company. If they refused to pay, I'd fight it in court. If I didn't have flood insurance despite the fact that I lived below sea level, I'd grab a hammer and start building because I have no one to blame but myself. Then, I'd be thankful if people and the federal government were nice enough to help, even in the smallest amount. So unless you are claiming that W drove the hurricane into New Orleans, I really don't see the point to that portion of your response. I disagree with other portions of your comment as well, but I simply don't have the time to address them in ways that would be fair to the topic, the readers, or you.

I have researched the situation, much more that you could imagine. I care about what happened in New Orleans and pray for their recovery. But, it doesn't make Ken or I a bigot to point out when somebody is wrong, even if that somebody has suffered in the past. It is not ignorant for me to agree with a point of view that differs from your's. Actually, that is what makes this country so special. So take off your blinders for a few minutes, look into some varying viewpoints, and see that not everything you hear on Keith Olbermann is perfectly true. When you start looking at things objectively, maybe you will appreciate varying viewpoints and stop just pointing out people's lack of evidence without any evidence to support your own arguments. Many people were at fault for the results of Katrina, and some of it just happened because of bad luck. It doesn't change the fact that people need to step up and do things on their own before chideing others for not doing enough. What I have said above is documented fact and I didn't make up a thing to "hide my ignorance." Please, let me know if you find evidence that proves any of this wrong. I'd be happy to learn it and I would gladly change my viewpoint if it is valid and sound. I have the feeling that no one on this blog is going to find anything though, you know, other than to say I'm either (1) wrong, (2) arrogant, (3) a bigot, or (4) ignorant without any evidence. I challenge you all to examine your own viewpoints and see the evidence that exists, so that we might all learn from this discussion instead of bashing one another without adequate evidence.